Freethinker's Letter On Religion To His Born-Again Family

Several months ago I wrote a letter to my family, attempting to clear the air and come to something of an understanding with my born-again family members, after some heated exchanges with my brother and other incidents over the years that showed a complete disregard for my right to my beliefs.

It is somewhat long, over 7 pages on Word, but I think it is a decent attempt to communicate with unreasonable and dogmatic about what I believe and don't believe.

This letter was met with either pretending that it never happened or a silence by some members of the family that includes not talking to me anymore.

I offer it up for others looking for ways to deal with religious family members.

I think it may be one of the best things I've ever written, probably because my wife acted as my editor and co-writer. Looking it over again months later I'm still very pleased with this, and the only thing I think I would have changed is my preference for what I consider myself. I should have added Freethinker to the list that included Naturalist and Humanist.

I've copied it here just as it was when I sent it.

I replaced all of the names in the letter with their relationship to me in parentheses.

----------------------------------------------


Dear family,

I feel that this letter has become necessary, after recent exchanges with my brother, among others, on the topic of religion. I believe it is time to address some issues and lay down some ground rules, for everyone's sake. Though, admittedly, I am more concerned about my sake.

I have sent this letter to Mom, (brother) & (sister-in-law), (step dad) & (step dad’s current wife), and (sister) & (brother-in-law). None of this is addressed to (sister) and (brother-in-law) but they will undoubtedly hear about it anyway, so I want them to see what I write here and not hear it secondhand, with someone else's interpretation of my meaning and intent.

This is to the followers of Christ in my family.

There seems to be some misunderstanding of my belief or at the very least a major disregard of it. In (brother)'s email to me he wrote that "At some point in life, most people begin to give mature consideration to some spiritual aspect of our earthly life (i.e. “is this all there is?”), meaning that he has done this and condescendingly implying that I have not. This preaching email also came at the end of a couple of exchanges after I explicitly told him to stop sending me proselytizing messages, though admittedly I told him in a less polite way than I should have handled it.

The only evidence he has of my lack of "mature consideration" of spiritual life is that I don't believe what he believes, and I get the impression from others of you by your words and actions that you think the same thing about me. (By the way (brother), your accusation that I am angry at you and your family is way off base. I was angry with you alone; this has nothing to do with your family.)

Let me please dispel this notion, as nothing could be further from the truth. While I do not have a "faith," my absence of such does not mean I am some wandering soul walking around waiting for someone to show me the answers. I went on my spiritual journey many years ago in my twenties. I've read the bible, cover to cover. I've read and pondered lots of other things as well, including many writings that support the idea of Christianity.

In the end my answer was, "no thanks." To all of it: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Scientology, etc. Even Buddhism, which I find to be a very beautiful, wonderful and fascinating religion in so many ways. But still, no.

But my belief is not an absence of belief as many of you assume. I believe in science. I believe in logic and reason. I believe in intellectual thought. I believe in the awesome wonders of the natural world and evolution. These things give me the answers I need - how we got here, how the world and universe around me works, what place I want to make for myself in it. I feel so lucky when I think about the time I live in, when there are so many things we know about biology, astronomy, physics, etc; compared to living in a time when the only place people could look for answers was their mythology. This gave them a lot of false answers, such as the earth being the center of the universe and the sun revolving around us rather than the other way around.

As for the BIG question my brother mentioned, "Is this all there is?" Well, probably. Maybe. I don't really know, but neither do any of you. The difference is that I'm not claiming to know the answer, and I certainly don't think a single book with suspect origins has the answers.

I suppose you wonder what this makes me or what I call myself. Well, I don't really think titles are that important, though I am very fond of referring to myself as a godless liberal like my red t-shirt exclaims. I'm not real fond of the title atheist. As Julia Sweeney mentioned in her one-woman show Letting Go of God, that term suggests that theism is normal so an atheist would be askew of what is normal. And I reject that notion. I'd say naturalist fits much better. Humanist is also something (Wife) and I consider ourselves, which also makes me happy because Bill O'Reilly hates us secular humanists more than just about anybody. And if Bill-O hates me, I know I'm doing something right.

The point is that I won't be swayed by any proselytizing, no matter how in my face or how subtle you think you are about it. I rejected the idea of Jesus a long time ago, when I realized how ridiculously fantastic the Christ story was and when I found out that the very same story exists in more ancient texts from well before the time Jesus was supposed to walk the earth. The name Jesus was applied to an old, already existing story and a religion was born.

And I certainly have rejected that book that condones slavery (read the passage right after Moses comes down with the commandments from god, he then immediately lists god's rules for buying and selling slaves and selling your children) and polygamy. There are lots of other things like that, and I just don't see how you can overlook those few but critical things but accept the rest of it as the "word of god."

So no matter how much praying you do for me or preaching you do towards me, I will never, ever accept Christ or any other deity as my saviour or become a religious person. I will be a non-believer to my death. I know this for a fact.

Besides, none of you would really be happy if I did become religious because I would end up becoming a Buddhist over anything else that's out there. And I'm sure in your belief that Buddhists are also going to hell.

So I'm asking you all to stop. In fact, I'm demanding it. The not-so-subtle ways that god gets thrown into conversations about topics as ordinary as a root canal is very frustrating for those of us who wish to have our lives free of religion.

And please don't try and tell me you don't do it. I'll give some examples of what I'm talking about.

Every Christmas, (Wife) and I receive cards from more than one of you that will have a long letter that begins and ends with the extolling of "his (with a capital h)" name and the glory of celebrating the birth of Christ as the son of god, and other non-stop preaching the glory of his name and what not. Even if there is no long letter, it is not uncommon for us to receive cards throughout the year with heavy religious/Christ messages. I do wonder if you all send these kinds of cards about Christ to any Jewish friends you might have? Wouldn't that be insensitive and rude? Why isn't it for us?

Mom, while I was talking on the phone with you prior to my daughter being born you laid into a big prediction about how you know I don't believe now, but when I look into my baby's eyes I was going to know that god touched my heart. Well, you were wrong. I looked into my amazing daughter’s eyes and I thought about the wonders of biology and the natural world. But it was also a really inappropriate thing to say to me. You have been the person I've asked the most to keep your religion out of my life. Yet you continue to sprinkle it in where you can, telling me on the phone that god is watching over me, or over you when something good happens. Or saying that you are praying for me.

I suspect, (step dad) and (step dad’s current wife), that you were encouraging your fellow church members to friend me on Facebook, to get more Christian influence on me or something. And when I still lived in Chicago you would invite me to see a show at your church that would be a hard-core religious song and dance show.

All of you have sent me emails with major religious messages or included religious-speak in normal emails, with tons of thanking him (with a capital h again) and praising him many times.

Why anyone thinks these tactics will work is beyond me. Would anyone be able to convince you to praise Allah if they bombarded you with Islamic propaganda?

And remember, while all of you think this is OK (preaching to me and my family, praying for us to turn your way), look what happened at (sister)'s when we were all there and I honestly answered a simple question from my niece. She noticed I wasn't praying and asked me why. I told her it was because I didn't believe in it and she followed up by asking if I didn't believe in god. Again I was honest, only answering very basically about myself and not trying to tell her I was right, only that I didn't believe in religion and that there are a lot of people who don't. Following the rules of your own religion I refused to lie to her about who I am.

Well, what happened? (Sister-in-law), (brother) and Mom all went ballistic, acting as if I had just thrown her a pack of smokes and a bottle of Scotch and said, "Have fun with those (niece)."

This blew up into a really frustrating conversation where (sister-in-law) confirmed to me that my nieces and nephew are being taught that I'm going to hell and my brother proclaiming that what he believes is "The Truth."

Well it's not The Truth. It's your truth, but it's not The Truth. It certainly is not my truth. It is not the truth to the billions of other decent people out there in the world who believe in Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or something else.

The saddest part about that whole episode, to me at least, is that (niece) now looks at me completely differently and appears almost fearful, either of me or for me. It could have been a teaching moment for a young girl to learn that there are lots of people in the world who are different from her and who believe different things. Instead, (brother) proclaimed that "we're working on him" in reference to getting me to come around to Jesus. So now my niece is uneasy around her "unsaved" uncle.

And I think reasonable people can agree that what you believe has a lot to do with when and where you were born. If we were all born in India I would be arguing with a few of the billion devout Hindus. But at least you would all be vegetarians like me.

(By the way, as an analogy, I have never preached my vegetarianism to any of you. I guarantee you that it is as important to me as your religion, but I ask only for a little accommodation when we are all together so I can have some options for food. (Brother) will refuse to accommodate me every chance he gets. When we were at Dad's a couple years ago, he insisted on going to a rib joint one night, where I had the wonderful choice of a baked potato for dinner. At (sister)'s he insisted on Chik-Fil-A. Not once has he ever given any thought to my dietary restrictions – it is always about what he wants. It's not uncommon for him to mock my vegetarian values. That's a good Christian?)

So where to go from here?

Well, it does all depend on what kind of a relationship you want with (Wife), (Daughter) and myself. If we are all going to move forward with any relationship at all, there have to be some ground rules. These will be non-negotiable, because I will no longer allow the intrusion of religion into my life, whether it is from the guy on the street trying to shove a pamphlet in my hands, the guy in Times Square trying to give me a Scientology "stress test" or my family.

First, the religious cards, letters and emails have to stop. Like the email (brother) sent out the other day about his leg, none of the religion was necessary in showing me pictures of his leg in a cast and telling the story of the accident. I am sorry about my short-tempered response to it that night, but hopefully this letter will give us a mechanism to make sure that no longer happens.

I realize that many of you are involved in churches that encourage you to be "bearing witness" or "testifying" all the time to your friends and family, so this could be a hard decision. But really, I'm never going to convert, so you wouldn't be risking losing me. I'm already lost to that world.

The same thing applies to talking on the phone. Please don't tell me that god is watching out for me or my wife or child. And don't tell me you're praying for me – that is pointless anyway.

Speaking of praying....

We need to come to an understanding about the rules of praying when we are together. I absolutely would never infringe on your right to pray, especially in your home. I have always respected that and kept quiet while you all prayed before a meal. I would ask that maybe I could be given a little warning so that I could do even better and leave the room for the praying. This actually becomes even more crucial with (Daughter) around. (Daughter) will learn about all the world’s religions, and she’ll hopefully even have the opportunity to observe different religious rituals and holidays around the world. However, she will never be taught, encouraged, or forced to pray, and I would prefer to not have her there when all the other kids are praying so that she doesn’t feel compelled to do this herself. I'm trying to keep her protected from indoctrination.

I would then also ask that in our home there be no out-loud praying. I think it is inappropriate that you do it at (sister)'s and (brother-in-law)'s without asking if it is OK, but obviously that's their call and not mine.

What about praying in public? You cannot expect to have those of us in the group who are non-believers stop what we are doing when you are praying in a public restaurant. In Waterloo back in May, we had that large table in the loud restaurant and (brother), (sister-in-law) and mom got all the kids to pray when the food started coming. We were at a very large table surrounded by tables full of talking patrons, and I was at the very end of the table. I continued to have my very pleasant conversation with (brother-in-law) while the praying was going on. I hadn't seen the guy in a while and I really like talking to (brother-in-law). Suddenly I was shushed by my mother (and my response was "don't shush me!") like I was a 14-year-old in church. I'm sorry, but you cannot expect the rest of us to stop what we are doing when you decide to pray in public.

Please stop praying for me. Stop praying for my wife. Stop praying for my daughter. Stop having your friends, congregations, pastors and whoever else pray for us. Our "souls" are none of your concern. Praying for us is insulting, rude and amazingly insensitive to our rights of religious freedom, ours being the freedom FROM religion. I know that I can't control what you are doing when I am not around. At the very least, though, stop telling me you are praying for me or us. But really, stop praying for us. I promise you it won't work.

And now there is the subject of Christmas. It is obvious that there are two different views of Christmas in America. There are those of us who celebrate it as a cultural event (which is its true origin, a winter solstice celebration that Pope Julius I stole from the Pagans and made a celebration of Jesus in the 4th century) and those of you for whom it is a solemn holy day in your faith. This is what makes you send out all those über-religious cards and letters praising Jesus.

Because we are literally celebrating two different things, a cultural event vs. a religious holiday, we shouldn't celebrate them with each other.

So I have decided that we will no longer celebrate Christmas with a good number of my side of the family. So we will no longer send or receive Christmas gifts or cards from Mom, (brother) & (sister-in-law)'s family and (step dad) & (step dad’s current wife).

We will still exchange gifts with (sister) and (brother-in-law) and their kids, because they view the holiday the same as we do (except we're not doing the Santa thing, we'll try to tell (Daughter) to keep her mouth shut about that Sis, until (nephew)'s older).

We'll also still celebrate with Dad and the religious members of (Wife)’s family since, as typical good American Catholics, they keep their religion to themselves.

I hope that this has clarified my side of things somewhat. I believe that the only way we'll be able to have a relationship going forward is by following these guidelines.

Let me be clear, though. I am not asking you, as seems to be expected of me, to deny who you are. If the topic arises, there is nothing wrong with telling (Daughter) that you are a Christian. I will not treat you with the same kind of anger I was treated with when I answered (niece)’s questions honestly. I don't want anyone to lie.

The line gets crossed when you tell her that Jesus is the son of god and died for her sins and that he loves her, or that god is everywhere, or telling her that sinners go to hell, good people go to heaven or any other such dogma. This would include giving her any gifts that promote such an agenda, from a "Jesus loves me" doll or shirt to a Veggie Tales DVD.

(Daughter) will learn what religion is, to be sure. She will learn about many of them, as we plan to take her around the world to see how others live, worship and socialize. But she will learn it in a context and a perspective of mine and (Wife)'s choosing. We will not allow her to be taught dogma.

I hope that this will help us come to an understanding. In this family we are not known for our respect of one another's differing views, it's not in our DNA. But hopefully we can at least respect each other’s space.

We will need to if we are going to have any relationship at all going forward. I think this could help reduce the amount of insults and yelling that gets tossed around during disagreements in this family, something that IS in our DNA without a doubt. I am as guilty of this as anyone and I'm trying to be a different person than that. Not having religion tossed in my face at every turn will help.

If you feel like you can't have a relationship with me based on what I laid out above, that your religion requires you to continue to try to convert me or testify to me, then that's your decision.

I will not respond with my usual ways of lashing out at your beliefs and criticizing the ridiculousness I see in them.

We just won't be able to have a relationship at all. And I certainly will not allow you to be around my daughter.

This is not meant as a threat or a punishment. It is just what would need to happen.

Hopefully I have made a sensible case for this, using the things I wholly believe in, reason and logic, and you understand where I am coming from.

If you are at all interested in why I believe what I believe, here are some suggested readings, all books I found to be more insightful than the book you live your life by:

The End of Faith by Sam Harris
The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens

...and my newest personal favorites are both by a fantastic author named Susan Jacoby:

The Age of American Unreason (Concerning the recent history of anti-intellectualism in America and the trend toward irrational thought.)

And

Freethinkers, A History of American Secularism (A wonderful book about the true story of the secular founding of this country and the great things secularism has done in our nation)

Another great thing to see is Julia Sweeney's new one-woman show, available on CD and DVD, called Letting Go of God, which is the story of her spiritual journey. It is not dissimilar to my journey to the same conclusion she comes to. Hers is funnier, though.

Thank you for taking the time to read this extremely long letter. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and that it's not from a place of anger or hatred.


Love,

Deni, (Wife) and (Daughter)

Monday Hate

Getting to the blog late tonight, but I'm sure I can quickly think of something that's annoying me right now. I think it is going to be a child-rearing related week. So let's get to the hate.

Here's one that's been happening a lot lately.

Mr. Mom. No, I don't mind the 80s movie with Michael Keaton. I seem to remember liking it OK, though I haven't seen it in over twenty years so it might be as bad as I discovered Pretty In Pink is on a more recent viewing. No, it is the reference to Mr. Mom that keeps coming up recently. As I've been talking about our upcoming move, mentioning that I probably won't be going back to work and will instead be home with the kid full time, so many people have said something like, "Cool, playing Mr. Mom for a while, huh?"

Ugh. People seriously, what century is this? Yes, I know that it is still way too often the mother that stays home with the kids, even in this day and age. But let's at least stop assuming that taking care of the kids is automatically the woman's job and that when the man does it he is the male mother and not just the dad staying home with the kid. No milk is coming out of these boobs no matter how hard I try, so I'm definitely not a mom.

I can't believe people don't see it as sexist as it seems to me. What you are really doing is calling my wife "Mrs. Dad" because she's got a successful career. And we all agree that that is an ass-hole thing to call a woman, right?

And the other phrase I hear really often these days....

"They grow up so fast." Uhmmm....no. I'm pretty sure kids age at the same rate as the rest of us, barring them having progeria. So my daughter is not growing up so fast, she is growing just right.

Making Up With Wilco

I had been all week contemplating going on Craigslist to see if I could pick up a Wilco ticket for last night's show at the baseball park in Coney Island. I'd been digging the new album much more than the last two and it has been about four years since I last saw them. Anyone who knows me knows that they have been my favorite band for a long time and I've seen Wilco, or Jeff Tweedy solo, over 40 times. But the last show I saw, at the Agganis Arena in Boston in June 2005, was just a horrible piece of crap show. That was following a few mediocre shows toward the end of 2004 and a few months before they would put out a snooze-fest of a live album.

So I had been a little turned off by the current lineup a while back, and thus hadn't been to a show for a while.

I decided not to drop the 45 bucks on the show. But yesterday at about 4:40pm I got a phone call from my buddy Phil, who I met a few years ago at a Robyn Hitchcock show, asking me if I wanted to go to a show that night because he got a couple of free tickets. And it was Wilco. So a quick call to the wife to see if it was OK that I leave her alone with the baby for the night and I was good to go.

It felt weird to heading to my first Wilco show in a few years. They've picked up a lot of newer fans since the last time I saw them. It was like I was going to an ex-girlfriend's house for a party and she would be there with her new boyfriend who didn't know her nearly as well as I do.

My adoration of this band used to know no bounds. Their name is in the url for this blog and its name comes from a line from one of their songs. But they have been less magical for me since Tweedy kicked Jay Bennett out of the band and Leroy Bach quit. And after the last shows I saw and the last couple of albums, my expectations were somewhat low.

Well they needn't have been. Wilco was on fire last night. The band is so tight right now and they sound so damn good. Tweedy is the most relaxed and happy I've seen him on stage in a long time. They are a group of just really great musicians and the live versions of a lot of my favorite songs sound so good with this lineup. Not that they played a ton of my favorite songs, with the focus being on a lot of newer stuff. But songs from Yankee Hotel Foxtrot were well represented by sometimes brilliant interpretations.

Feist joined them for the first encore for You and I, hich she also sings on the new album. It was a nice moment, Tweedy and Feist both having their hair blowing in the breeze off the water in Coney Island, singing one of Tweedy's prettiest recent songs. Opening act Yo La Tengo, who we missed due to subway issues, came out and joined for a spectacular version of "Spiders (Kidsmoke)" that rocked the park for twelve minutes.

Highlights for me included a version of "Can't Stand It" that really blows the album version out of the water, being one of the weakest songs on Summerteeth. Also, the version of "Jesus, etc" with Nels Cline on a lap steel guitar (I think that's what it is) that, for my money, is the best thing he does. The subtle Nels Cline for me is so much better than the show-off guitar solo Nels Cline. He is an amazing guitarist, but the whole masturbating with the guitar on stage thing is why I can't stand Led Zeppelin. So that can get a little tiring.

I was disappointed that they only played one song from Being There and none from A.M., their second and first albums, respectively. I wasn't sure we were going to even get anything from Being There, because it as pretty late in the first encore before they finally played "Misunderstood," one of the most perfectly crafted songs ever. And it was a great version, with one exception. There is a part toward the end of the song where the band plays one riff over and over while Tweedy screams "nothing" over and over. Like a lot. According to the Via Chicago message board, because one of the über-nerds always counts it, last night he screamed it 44 times.

Problem is he's been doing this for a decade, and it is really old and tired. Not that it was ever that cool to begin with, pretty boring, really. Like, drum solo boring. He really should retire it.

And on a night when they were playing right around the corner from the actual Mermaid Avenue, you would have thought there would have been a few more songs from those two albums. All we got was "California Stars" and the show-ending "Hoodoo Voodoo," which were nice, but you would have thought on such a night in the place where a lot of those lyrics were written we could have gotten a little more love for the Woody Guthrie material. It would have been a perfect setting for "Remember The Mountain Bed" at the end of the night.

But it was a great concert nonetheless. It wasn't the 1996-2002 era of Wilco that gave me so many perfect nights of music, but this is a much better band than the 2003-2007 version, even though it is the same lineup.

I was pretty jazzed and flying high after the show, somewhat similar to what I felt like when I hooked back up with my old girlfriend back in 1998, who is now the awesome wife that let me bolt out on her and the baby at the last minute to hit this show. If you had asked me just the year before if we would have ever gotten back together I would have said no way. Just like that, I really didn't think I'd ever be this geeked-out about Wilco again, even though I really hoped I could.

I don't know if Wilco and me will ever be as serious as we once were. But at least we're dating again. And that makes me happy.

The Return Of Monday Hate

Hello all. Well it has been a long time since my last post, a new baby can really get in the way of pointless blogging, so I'm really going to try to get back to blogging on a somewhat regular basis.

And what better way to try to get restarted than to bring back my formerly regular feature of Monday Hate? Those of you that were reading my blog before the kid as born will remember how this works, that every (hopefully) Monday I list off the things that are annoying me at that moment.

So here's what's bugging me this Monday:

Zipcar. I cannot even begin to convey how much I hate this fucking company. Yet another case of an environmentally unfriendly company calling themselves "green" to sell their products. (My favorite is British Petroleum re-branding themselves "Beyond Petroleum") I have so many supposedly liberal friends who use this service and seem to think that the only emission coming out a Zipcar is sunshine, happiness and flowers. Well, the same crap that comes out of a car you own is the same crap that comes out of a Zipcar. The air quality of our urban areas is at a crisis, not to mention the issue of global warming. And those aren't the only environmental problems with the American car culture (we will eventually pave over every single acre of this country). Yet somehow Zipcar makes a lot of people think they are doing something positive for the environment, and that is one of the ways the company sells itself. But I think it's a lie.

They claim that by car sharing, there are less cars owned by individual people, and that equals less driving. But I don't buy it. Less cars owned by a population does not mean less number of hours there are cars on the road. What Zipcar has done is make cars more available, and for a lower cost, where they wouldn't have been previously for a lot of urban dwellers. This makes people make bad choices for convenience, like run errands that could be done on public transportation.

Zipcar claims that they are lowering car ownership, but I really don't think they take in to account the number of people without cars already that are using their service who would have previously figured out a different way to do what they needed to do. The main reason I don't own a car or belong to Zipcar is because I know how easy it is to make the wrong decision with an air-pollution machine readily available.

And really, if you live in an urban area, especially Manhattan, and you can't run you normal errands like buy groceries, pick up supplies at the hardware store or bring home a set of shelves from Crate & Barrel by foot and subway with a cart, you are just being lazy. My wife and I even brought home an area rug for our living room from Macy's by way of the subway. And we live as far from the subway as you can get while living in Manhattan.

But people think they are doing something good for the environment by using Zipcar. These are probably the same people that think they are doing good by buying Poland Spring's "eco-bottle" when getting their bottled water. Dumbasses.

We all want our air quality and global warming problem fixed, but so many of us don't want to be the ones that have to give something up for it.

It's the new way to be "green" in the 21st century. Don't actually do anything positive, just make people think they are doing good. I think Zipcar's motto should be: "Alleviating liberal guilt about polluting the air since 2000."

Fresh Direct. See most of the reasons above. It's bad enough that it requires big trucks traveling long distances to get our groceries to the market, now we need them driving around the city to get them to our homes. Again, you really should be walking or taking the subway/bus to the grocery store in New York. Seeing these big Fresh Direct trucks sitting on the streets idling while the driver makes a delivery is so bothersome. Just about every grocery store in the city has delivery, except they have guys that do it on foot with carts. No carbon emissions required.

Texting and walking at the same time. I think this may actually be more annoying than people who text and drive. You think you can text and walk at the same time? Well, you're wrong. Nobody can, and yet so many people do. And they usually bump into the rest of us as they swerve down the sidewalk, block our way when we are trying to get around them in a narrow hallway and they are moving at a snail's pace or almost cause accidents by walking out in the street without looking where they are going. Seriously, stop and move to the side if you need to read or send a text.

I've got a new rule for the rest of us. When anyone texting walks by, not looking where they are going, give them a swift elbow to the face. That'll teach 'em.


Well, that felt great to get off my chest. Hopefully I'll have another instalment next week, and will be blogging more regularly again.

Remember, if it's Monday, I must be hating.